Crop Circles discussion

Posted: 12, May 2011 in Uncategorized

legitimate formation

The above link is to an discussion I’m having with Doug’s Darkworld, over the nature of Crop Circles.
This may have the sane futility factor as a discussion about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

But such as it is, the discussion on Crop Formations needs to take place, now, more than ever, in my opinion.

This was the shot that sparked a very heated debate over there:

[cite]The designs all seem to quite clearly come from human cultural references, sometimes subtle mathematical ones, but there’s yet to be a crop circle that screamed, or even whispered, that it was conceived by a non-human mind. why do none of them contain imagery, symbols, or mathematics of non-human origin? [/cite]
A convincing arguement is made for the fact that all mathematics, geography, art, written language, agriculture, architecture, essentially all culture, is of “non-human origins.” We’re told, in the Vedas, Talmud, Popul Vuh, Gnosticism, even the one-and-only Holy Bible, that these things descended to us from the god(s). In Egyptian lore, Thoth was the bearer of math, building, geography: all things we now take for granted.
Not to put words in your mouth, but it seems that you are saying that simply because you recognize the symbols elements, that they are of human origin. Your argument looks through the wrong end of the telescope. You, yourself, may be so intimate with mathmatical theorems that it’s second nature for you, but this hasn’t always been the case for humanity, and isn’t even the case for much of the world now. Breathing, taking a crap, fornicating, killing and eating may all very well be of human origin, but complex math like geometry, and trigonometry isn’t. These are “alien concepts” that our human brain needed to be trained to understand, let alone master–as some of these formations clearly demonstrate.
I dispute this premise of “non-human origin” as the litmus test, the so called “smoking gun,” of their authenticity. I don’t see why that’s such an issue. There’s plenty of things in our world clearly of human origin that are no less baffeling to us; things obviously man-made, but no less alien. The carbeurator of the internal combustion engine, for example. Let’s say there was a perfect rendering of said carb: would one still be able to decypher the meaning? Look at Stonehenge, the pyramids at Giza, the earthen lines in the Nazca plains of Peru, cave drawings. Manmade, sure, but what is their meaning?
Seeing these symbols only on some superficial level of the shapes being the totality of the meaning, is an untenable view. Sure there exists circles, squares, triangles, straight and crooked lines. I’ll concede that they’re recognizable shapes to humans, but that doesn’t make them necessarily “of human origin.” Those shapes are simply the building blocks. It’s the way the whole image is constructed; the nature of multiple similar, and dissimilar, shapes which are compounded to create new, and foreign designs. Let’s just say, for the sake of this discussion, that the following shapes are of human origin: a vesica pisces, a turnbuckle, rings, straight lines. These are, essentially, the individual elements comprising the so-called Dolphinograms (“”). Even if I’m accepting that the individual elements are man-made, the completed formation is still unusual, and “alien.”
Let’s say, again for the sake of this discussion, that ALL of these symbols are of human origin. So what? If we accept that these formations, the real non-hoaxed ones, are meant as a form of communication, does it make any sense for the communicators to present their message in some alien language? If you’re trying to communicate with someone, it’s obvious that there needs to be a commonality of understanding. Symbols and mathematics satisfy that requirement.
I maintain that the overwhelming majority of Crop Formations, historically, have not been created by human hands, or human deeds, since first reported in the 1700′s; but if they are “human” made, these formations are no less alien and mysterious to us. They resonate on some subliminal level that our modern “scientific” endoctrination has suppressed. I would make a good case that symbols themselves are alien to our present-day Culture of Twitter. If it’s not spelled-out in 140 characters or less, we can’t be bothered to figure it out.

[cite]…if the Earth itself were conscious and capable of communicating, one would think it would have multiple unmistakable avenues of communication …[/cite]
Who are the aliens? If I’m saying that the majority are not hoaxes, if not done by humans, then who/what is doing them? Like it or not, this is where the discussion starts getting metaphysical. Basically, they are a manifestation projected from a different dimension(s). For the sake of this discussion, simply assume that they’re 4-D beings. That’s probably easier to digest than if they were 11th-D individuals. What one needs to understand is that there are all sorts of “angels,” spirits, and etheric beings of other dimensions, or density levels. There are, in fact a small number of alien beings residing on Earth. There really is an amazing cross sections of “people” living on this planet. Here we would have to be very generous in our description of refering to some beings as “human”, or as “people”. All these beings have free will because they get to chose. Some chose to enslave others. Some chose to help others.
Thinking of this in terms of mind, we ask what is consciousness? Our consciousness exists while we’re sleeping. During this time, our consciousness leaves our bodies, and enters a dimension other than the 3-D world. It is spirit at that point. It’s still us, as a human, it’s attached to our body, or a part of it is anyway. So, once that consciousness leaves our body, it goes 4th, 5th, 6th -D, whatever. So from that state, given the proper tool, a human consciousness could create those shapes.
In our 5-senses-limited-3-Dimensional world, we can see an actual example of 2-D being: a flatfish, so-called fluke. It’s flat and circular, like a pancake with fins. Both eyes are on one side of its body. Within its world, anything to the side of it doesn’t exist. It couldn’t see me crouched down below its horizon of sight, therefore I wouldn’t exist. It’s also a thinking, feeling being, so it would sense that I was there. It’s more primative than the simplest 3-D human, but yet that fish would grasp the meaning of those formations directly relating to, say for example, water. So, if you can imagine a being, call it human or not, but of 4 dimensions, you’de never really see him/her/it, except for the tinyest of cross sections, a plane, which resides in our common time-space.
Terrence McKenna posits that our soul is foreign to us. Science, scientists, religion, materialism have caused us to become alienated from our true selves. So in essence, that which we can’t see, hear, touch, taste, or feel with our hands is unknown, and therefore alien. If we only use 10% of our brains, at best, what is happening in the other 90%? Let’s be real: how much brain power is being used during World of Warcraft, or any video game, for that matter? So, if only 2% of our mind is being used, that equals 98% of our own head being alien to us.
Perhaps the crop formations are meant as a way to help us, by getting us to think about “primative” symbols, motifs, projections which conjur something familiar, yes. Something primal, yes. Something understood, or overstood? Well, maybe not. Hopefully, by looking at the shape, it brings forth something resonent in your mind, and spirit.
Nature is so alien to homo saps, that if these were done by the Earth Herself, it would be as if created by some kinda extra-terrestrial. Somewhere in here, natural processes are used–behold, alien technology. Essentially, Christianity as a religion, killed nature and religions based on it. So we’re at the point of calling witches anyone who understands nature, and natural processes. The symbols, motiffs, formations aren’t just familiar to mind, they’re organic to it.

[cite]…but there’s yet to be a crop circle that screamed, or even whispered, that it was conceived by a non-human mind. [/cite]
You look in the wrong place for evidence of “alien” creation in these things. The evidence lay not in the symbols them selves, which are universal, but in the way they are created. Actual witnesses, those who study these formations can tell you there is a noticable difference between the human made ones, and those produced by the balls of light which are consistently reported in association with the formations.
One of the biggest differences comes from how the stalks are laid down. In the human-made ones, the stalks are broken, not bent. There is no pattern to the lain stalks; it rather looks a mess, a hodge-podge of stalks. With the light ball produced ones, not only is there descernable patterns, but they actually layered in such an organized pattern, representing a wide variety of “strokes” used to create a number of different textures, and directions within the fallen grains–much like one would use a paint brush to create texture and “shading” on a flat canvas. The most amazing of these textures are the ones where the stalks are bent 8, or 9 inches above the ground. To date, no human being has been able to reproduce that particular “pattern.” In the human produced ones, the stalks are ameteurishly broken, more often destroyed. Whereas, in the light-ball produced ones, the plants are not only still living, but actually do better on account of the treatment..
There’s also the fact that in the light-ball produced ones, there’s the presence of a black, charred substanced which, under chemical analysis is determined to be amorphous iron. The human prodeced ones can’t reproduce that. Within the stalks themselves, tiny holes appear in the bent area, where steam vapour is released. They know it’s steam because that particular area shows a lower content of water. Additionally, eyewitnesses report clouds of steam that accompany the production of the formations. Humans can’t/don’t create that when they hoax these things.
There’s also the fact that crossing over the boundry of a real crop formation will play havoc on electronics. Consistently, people report their cameras, phones, other electronic recording devices start to malfunction once the threshold of the Formation is crossed. People have regularly reported their devices failing, and internal components “frying.” Alkaline batteries regularly stop working. Eyewitnesses have reported odd time shifts: losing time, watches not working, or stopping altogether. Man-made formations don’t produce any of the above.
When crossing the boundry of the light ball produced formations, people have reported unusual and disorienting effects in their body: nausea, headaches, anxiety, other body reaction. Hoaxed circles don’t produce physiological effects, or none that anyone’s reported.
Immediately preceding the light ball produced formations sounds are heard, such as a crackling, humming, and/or a trilling sound. Eyewitness’ exposed to this sound claim it’s unique to the formations. No sounds of that calibre are reported accompanying human-produced formations.
Do we need to talk about the presence of footprints leading too-and-fro and/or within the formations themselves?
The hoaxers would have us focus on the superficiality of the designs themselves, as if that shallow element is the most paramount. Yet even by that standard, the hoaxed ones are visually inferior to the light-ball produced designs. Within the light-ball produced ones, there is a precision, and skill missing in the human produced ones. This may be their most obvious, therefore most notable feature in decyphering hoax. When plotted on “the grid” they are mathematically/physically perfect, or as near-perfect as produced by any machine. The points match-up. The geometry is spot on. New things are actually revealed in their precision. The hoaxes are obvious from this standard.

You said: [cite] taking great pains to avoid using ANYTHING unfamiliar to humans. [/cite]
If I assume for the sake of this conversation that mankind invented mathematics with no help from “the gods,” what of the crop formations? Is it true that NONE of these are alien to mankind?
Let’s look at the so-called “Julia Set” of 1996 (“”); on Salisbury Hill, just a stone’s throw from Stonehenge. The Julia Set is one of the fractal designs. Fractals exist in nature in the form of trees, leaves, coastal shorelines, rivers, etc. It’s an uphill battle to consider a fractal to be of human origin. Even though we can represent these forms with the assistence of a powerful computer, certainly that hasn’t always been the case.
On a different note, bystanders at the time this was made claim that the ’96 Julia Set appeared within a 15-30 minute window; yet researchers surveying the site took about 5 hours to survey, measure, and to do all the stuff that they do.
It is true that these symbols are familiar to us, from our modern perspective. Our society does suffer from an information overload.
[cite]“Many agriglyph formations simultaneously represent perfect aspects of many disciplines, such as the “Julia Set” formation in a field opposite Stonehenge in England. To mathematicians, it is an exact reproduction of the computer-generated fractal “Julia Set” image. To a musician, it is a base [sic] clef. To a marine biologist, it’s an accurate cross-section of a nautillus. To the scientist, it constitutes a mammal with precisely the correct number of vertebrae. Other crop patterns reflect with equal precision the traditional, spiritual symbols of many Earth cultures (” [/cite]
Also, the 1991 “Mandelbrot Set” in Cambridgeshire (“”), another Crop Formation fractal, is notable in its mathematical perfection.
I would submit, that to our so-called scientifically advanced society, a simple circle can be baffeling. In Western society, a circle might be considered a simple thing, easily revealing its secrets. From our so-called advanced perspective, we might even think the lowly, primative circle has no secrets to offer. But is that so? To Euclid, the numerical value of pi was mystery. Figuring the area of circles was a mystery. These days computers can figure pi to thousands of places; our hand-held calculators can instantly figure the area of a circle. Does that mean that this “man-made” symbol has no secrets to divulge; that it isn’t indeed baffeling? I mean, think of it, what if it were a game: If you had the tool of pi, how would you play with those circles, rings, and curves?
In Eastern societies, a simple circle is a different matter. It has the value of The Void. It also means completion: wholeness, inclusion, even healing in certain circles. It’s the beginning and end, at the same time. By extension, that simple circle symbol mayhaps be of human origins, but is equally no less baffeling to Western “ruler straight” logical thinking. In addition, there are a growing number of symbols relating to Eastern religion, philosophy, an/or metaphysics.
There’s the 1996 Ecthilhampton work, which is quite amazing in its scope, “a chain of circles and pathways approximately 4100 feet long crossed from one end of a field to another” ( What makes this more interesting is the glyph on the top, resembling the solar plexus chakra. The symbol may appear also as a horse with its tail up, in this case signifying the Egyptian sphinx.
Are the hoaxers that familiar with the totality of man’s symbolic history, whereby they’re able to accurately represent these forgotten languages, Eastern esoteric symbols, heiroglyphics, Mayan symbolism, cave drawings, and other arcane pictoglyphs? To believe that body of 5, no less 8, people are that knowledgable and capable of that degree of precision, to me, requires a monumental effort of faith.

You said: [cite]“…it wouldn’t be too hard to express a mathematical law or geometric theorem in a crop circle that humans had never seen before. And so far, if aliens are making crop circles, they have been using only mathematics and geometry that humans are already familiar with….Or going at this from another direction, it’s been pointed out that a lot of crop circles clearly illustrate classic geometric theorems. Well, new geometric theorems are still being discovered, I mean, new things in mathematics are discovered all the time, it’s hardly a static science.”[/cite]
These just aren’t true. What new mathematic theorem was created last year? What new geometrical theorum has been discovered, or invented the year before? Or the one before that? In the last 30 years, what new geometrical theorems have you come up with, for that matter? In point of fact, new mathematical formulas are NOT being introduced all the time– certainly not new geometric formulas. Let’s take Euclid, from 300BC, as an example. In his treatise, Elements, which details his theorems, postulates, he details a number of theorems.
However, there are still some missing. According to Gerald Hawkins:
[cite]“…[these theorems] are not in Euclid’s books. I think he missed them, and I can show you a point in his long treatise where they should be–in Book 13, after proposition 12. There he had a complicated triangle-circle theorem, and these would naturally follow. One reason he missed them was he didn’t know the value of pi, and probably was not comfortable with the area of circles. Another reason why he missed them was that we are pretty sure that he didn’t know the full set of perfect diatonic ratios in 300BC” (Hawkins 1991).[/cite]
[cite] In response, the ever-skeptical scientific community would claim that these missing theorems could be proved by bright, young high school students. “Proving a theorem is one thing, especially after you’ve been told, but creating one is altogether a much harder proposition.” (Hawkins 1991).[/cite]
In the course of analyzing the other symbols, almost by accident, he discovers a fifth, more generalized theorem from which all the others were derived.
[cite] “To demonstrate how hard it is to conceive of a mathematical theorem, in 1992 Hawkins dangled this brain-numbing puzzle in front of the 267,000 worldwide readers of Science News. The idea was to challenge scientists and mathematicians to create, given the other four, this fifth theorem. None figured it out. A further challenge to readers of Mathematics Teacher proved equally as fruitless. Then, in 1995, a version of the theorem appeared, encoded into the Litchfield ‘Torc’ crop circle” (Secrets In The Field, Silva 2002).[/cite]

You said: [cite]” …If that is the case, then if the patterns were being created by a non-human mind, we would expect to see at least SOME elements, motifs, symbols, patterns, and yes, mathematics, that humans had never seen before. …And a lot of people have studied them, no one has discerned any message yet that I am aware of.” [/cite]
There’s a difference between seeing something, and creating something. It’s one thing to see a bird in flight, knowing it is heavier-than-air movement, and a whole other order of operations to invent a means of actually realizing that vision. This reminds me of persons who upon hearing an amazing story, second-hand, subsequently forget where they heard it, yet liking it so much they adopt it as their own.
If I accept your first statement as true, then it summarily needs to be recognized that some of these symbols, motifs, patterns haven’t been used, seen, or even recognized by humans for quite a number of years, perhaps hundreds of them. Notable examples are the so-called Mayan Glyphs. One such example is the July 1996 “Hunab Ku,” in Wiltshire, UK ( Certainly, any 10-year old may recognize the crescent, the spiral, and firey ring which comprise the symbol. That said, however, I couldn’t imagine the last, or first, time that you’ve ever used that symbol. I couldn’t tell you the first time I’ve seen that symbol as, say, I’m walking down the street.
The 2001 Chilbolton Pictoglyph–the reply to the 1974 message sent by NASA from the Aricebo telescope ( This formation is notable in the fact that it occured in a field quite near a secure facility. This reply has been studied, and figured-out to some extent.
We can also look at the 02 August1991 “Milk Hill script” (“”). At first, this was brushed-off as an obvious hoax. But on second glance, it was a message. If it was a hoax, shouldn’t it be easy to decipher? Gerald Hawkins thought so, but eventually had to assemble a team of 12 scholars to decipher it. 18,000 common phrases, and 42 languages later, they arrived at an acceptable solution. Hawkins and his team finally figured the message was using post-Augustan Latin. Not only that, but 6 of the 7 letters for the script were traced to an obscure Knights Templar-based alphabet. So far, no hoaxers have come forth to take claim for this deceptively simple looking formation.
These symbols, among many others, have been studied by experts, and perhaps some not-so-experts. It’s a fallacy to claim that NOONE has been able to decypher ANY formation. Certainly, you have the choice to disagree with their findings, but that doesn’t mean that others haven’t deduced some meaning from them.
More importantly however, is reading between the lines of what you’re actually saying. You say that none of these symbols have been created outside of man’s invention, but yet noone’s been able to decypher any meaning. Well, which is it? If they’re of human origin, surely we can easily decyper meaning of most, if not all of them, right? Yet they do seem to elude our understanding. The fact of the matter is that a number of formations do show us things we’ve never thought of before, or which show new dimensions on things seemingly fully understood previously.

You said: [cite]“The whole crop circle thing has actually turned into an industry, albeit a small one. Farmers make good money charging people to look at crop circles on their land, $10 a head in some cases. And they have every right to, crops circles are vandalism and the crops in the circle are basically ruined, not to mention more get ruined when people flock to see them. So they have to recoup their losses. “[/cite]
A few words on capitalism. I’m of the same mindset as you, I think, in relation to the capitalist taint on crop formations. It makes me a little squimish to see all the attempts to market them. But to me, this just seems to be the human thing to do, the human way to assimilate some pretty intense information. In the same respect that people turned the words of Jesus into a religion and subsequent business. The same might be said for the crop formations. I heard this expression: Jesus would be saddened and dissappointed by the religion that bears his name.
People are hoaxing and staging these formations for monetary gain. There is big business in dubunking these phenomena. That money is mostly coming from the U.S., British, and German governments to try and prove they’re hoaxes.
What is the bottom line here, in this alleged monetary equation? To me, quite simply that bottom line is that skepticism goes both ways. Logic, as with science is a double-edged sowrd. Show me the proof. If these things are faked, and hoaxed, then where are all the people doing them? If there’s so many more now, of, as you point-out increasing complexity, then where are all the hoaxers and their testimony? How come there’s not page after page of documents flooding forth to prove they’re all hoaxed, and staged as in the 1994 Halkpen Hill Formation staged by Tean Satan at the behest of Arthur C. Clark. Upon observation, when plotted to “the grid”, the missed points, the botched geometry. In all fairness, nine-fold geometry is kinda tough–that’s whey it’s historically been reserved for royalty, and “the gods.”
Show me the proof. Show me the money. Let me see logs, journals, gps readings, longitude/latitude points, sketches, diagrams, anything from the hoaxers shoing intent. As these designs get more complex, it requires greater efficiency, great coordination amongst a great number of individuals. Remember, they’re trying not to be seen, detected, etc., so this requires an even greater attention to detain, greater planning leading up to the blessed event. Because it’s an increased amount of people who are supposed to be executing this over a relatively short period of time, with the hopes of remaining undetected, then greater planning is required. If you’re trying to convince me that any group, big or small, would undertake a task such as some of these 900+ ft. formations one just a simple whim, or the figure-it-out-as-we-go, seat-of-your-pants kinda thing, you really are crazy.
Simply put: where is the documention from your eyewitnesses, the creators themselves? Certainly there must be dozens of people involved in the making of some 10,000 formations worldwide. With added complexity, you’re going to have to have a bigger work crew to get it done in a reasonable time, especially so as not to be detected. Look at some of the formations with 208 elements/circles. How long would it take you to do that–supposedly in the dark, nonetheless. Certainly, there must be a large number of people making these formations.
Well, no, there isn’t. If you search for the testimony of circle hoaxers, you’re going to find about 5 people now making them, not counting the production teams who go out there to offer assistence. While there may be more people creating formations, one doesn’t hear anything significant from them. It all seems to boil down to a selective few as the hoaxers, most notably is Team Satan, (now wanting to be known as the circlemakers,). Team Satan/the circlemakers (names Rod Dickinson, John Lundberg, Will Russell), in addition to other hoaxers: Robert Irving and Jim Schnabel (occasional collaborators with Team Satan) are the ones that get called when individuals, businesses, media want to stage a hoaxing. In 2010, A production company, Zig-Zag Productions was contracted by NatGeo to essentially stage a hoax, who contacted Team Satan. In THE ANATOMY OF DECEPTION (, it details paid hoaxes by The Daily Mail (UK), BBC, and other organizations.
You said: [cite]” In any event, so much money is involved in crop circles now, that I noticed most crop circle images are copyrighted.” [/cite]
Ah yes, the necessity for protecting one’s self legally. Well, it is my understanding that laws and the legal system came to us, lowered from “the gods.” In which case, not really their best legacy to mankind.
If the seekers of truth are selling their photos, I have no problems with that. If the picture was taken by someone who actually went there to view, and photograph first hand, and document the formation, then good for him/her. They deserve to EARN back some of their expenses to go over to Milk Hill, or Wiltshire, or Etchilhampton, and all the elsewheres that legitimate formations take place. These people who travel, usually at their own expense, go there to collect data, take measurements, analyze soil, photograph, do electromagnetic analysis, and perform all the other documentation that we can now read, and review.
So, yes, why shouldn’t they protect what is theirs, that they produced by their own work? Would you want someone stealing your work, especially if it’s for the purpose of discrediting them as legitimate, does that make any sense at all?
You said: [cite]” The aliens are trying to teach us about capitalism?”[/cite]
Indeed there is quite a business involved in these crop formations–in debunking them. Even at a staggering 10 quid per head, the farmers aren’t getting rich off these formations. You know the tax man is swinging by shortly thereafter to collect his share. The people getting the money are the ones getting paid to hoax them. You’d be wrong to think that governments aren’t spending quite a bit of money on their disinformation campaigns. It is, to me, obvious why they have an interest in “proving” them as hoaxes. Because, if these are seen as genuine, then that means that the security forces who believe they own the air would be afraid that that would give the perception that they aren’t in control of the air. That’s one of the reasons why the other ufo phenomena is propagandized as being a hoax.
I suspect that the true teacher of Capitalism in relation to crop formations is none other than our government, the ones who created capitalism in the first place.

You said: [cite] “…but people have shown time and again that the most complicated crop circles can be made by small numbers of people with the simplest of tools and a basic understanding of geometry. It’s not rocket science, and as far as I can tell from my readings, there’s nothing here that particularly needs explaining.”[/cite]
As far as the layman looking at these formations, it’s not in the least surprising that the “average” person can’t tell the difference between the real and the fake. Heck, one publication even considered the Wallstreet Journal as experts. Surprisingly, they were suprised that they couldn’t find the hoax.
Here in Walmart Nation, we’ve essentially replaced everything real with cheap substitutes. In our quest for cheap crap, we obtain from the lowest bidder. In our quest for lighter weight, humans have invented less-substantial, flimsier imitations of most parts that we use to construct houses, boats, other trappings of modern life. We’ve out-sourced our food, clothing, shelter, work, even our minds, to others, even sadder to corporations. We now live the “life of luxury,” where people live longer. Obtained through economic and scientific Imperialism (i.e. conquest); created, has been the alleged highest standard in the whole World, nee, the Whole Galaxy. The deification of stuff can have only one natural, logical conclusion. The procurement of stuff leads to cheaper, and cheaper substitutes of the original, real thing. Unfortunately, in the bargain of obtaining “more” (including knowledge and data), Homo Sapien Sapien (“the more man”) has lost connection with things real, of meaning. Homo Saps is now adrift.
Where modern (Western) humankind is particularly deficient is in those things which require physical labor. The majority of people don’t know how to use tools, stomping boards, and otherwise. Thinking machines now do his work for him. For the overwhelming number of people, making those formations of say, over 200 individual elements, would be just the same as “rocket science.” We don’t manufacture things, including crop formations. Quite honestly, the work involved in doing them is incredible, if people are doing it. If you don’t think it takes a huge amount of hours, and “manpower” to do one, go ahead and try it yourself. What does yours look like? Or even better yet, try to draw one, using a pencil. What does that look like? Looks exactly the same, oh, well than try it with a paint brush. How’s that one look? Exactly the same, well, then you’re ready for the stompers, and boards, and other mechanical things they use to make them. If you think it’s that easy to do it, where ALL those formations are 3-D human made forms, then you should have no troubles doing it.
That to me is the true total, the bottom bottom line. There is just not enough talented people out there, with the proper time to spend making all those 10,000 formations. Modern “more” man is just not capable of producing those amazing works. Those symbols evolved from a much older, more civil civilization. An intelligence both familiar and organic to us, yet as foreign and alien as our own soul.


January 14, 2011 at 12:28 pm

This Too Shall Pass

Posted: 23, April 2011 in Uncategorized

OK GO, are the guys who brought you the treadmill video, with all that wild choreography with, well, a bunch of treadmills. Now, for their song This Too Shall Pass, they bring you the Rube Goldberg contraption. .

This is amazing…they definitely win the Interpretive Engineering Engineering award. Some crazy technology here.


Information Triage

Posted: 23, April 2011 in Uncategorized
   This link (
 is where I came across the Phrase “Information Triage.” Although the author of I heart Wall Street does note that it is, in fact, “the word of the day,” his post is on a completely different topic: something about a trading schedule. I don’t know what the charts mean, really, and don’t care. This phrase is what interests me.
   This is such a Fishbowl topic. If not for Sanjiv’s class, then certainly for my own.
   For those unfamiliar with the phrase “The Fishbowl,” I’ll have a separate post on what The Fishbowl is. Suffice to say for now that simply put The Fishbowl, started by Sanjiv Dugal, Economics Professor at URI, is a virtual space where we can all share equally in the dialog. In his, hes got daily lessons. Here in my Fishbowl it relates to my daily life, work, and whatever I do for fun and excitement (as often those interleve.) Part of the push in general of The Fishbowl is to give some thoughts to how you think about things. The modus operandi of your perceptions. There’s kinda a zen thing in how the topics-at-discussion relate to business, and ultimately ‘getting the contract.’
   So, with that understanding, one can see that the phrase inherently lends itself to dissection. As the readers below have.
By Barry Ritholtz – April 21st, 2011, 2:00PM
Great concept — that is exactly how I sift through the daily deluge of data: Information Triage:
n. The process of gathering, sorting, and prioritizing information to identify what is relevant or important and to discard everything else.

Information triage is the continuous process by which we refine the information we gather, paying most attention to the information that is most valuable and identifying additional information we want to procure.
—”Information Triage,” Notes About Notes, January 1, 2010 (approx)

Source: WordSpy


Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Also, be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.

6 Responses to “Information Triage”

  1. Alex Says:
    April 21st, 2011 at 3:09 pm But what is your specific process?To use the simple triage concept in its literal sense, one would divide everything into three general categories.

    Those who would recover regardless of treatment level.
    those who are likely to die regardless of treatment level.
    Those who may live if prompt treatment is applied.

    And so the third category is treated first.

    What is the triage for information?

  2. KJ Foehr Says:
    April 21st, 2011 at 3:38 pm What is the triage for information?Information that prior experience with the source indicates is almost always irrelevant/useless, inaccurate, or pure BS.

    Information that prior experience with the source indicates may be relevant/useful, factual, insightful, or at least entertaining.

    Information that experience with the source indicates is likely to cause serious negative consequences if ignored, such as messages from the wife, email or other material sent by superiors at work, and mail from the IRS or the DMV.

  3. Alex Says:
    April 21st, 2011 at 6:26 pm So which one is first? What is last? There is no absolute standard, everyone has their own way.In the case of your three, it may seem obvious from the value judgments you assigned. But, for example, is irrelevant or “bad” information always last? What if an economic report came out that was nonsense (I know, never happens) and you ignored it while other actors did not. Would that always be in your interest? Many of Barry’s entries here show he reads nonsense quite regularly, and then goes about demolishing it to make sure he is on signal and they are not. I often make time to read “bad” information, just to make sure it is just that.

    Why do I first need to read what I have already decided is good information, if I have already decided its “good”?

    I agree that critical information always is first. But what type of “critical” information? That is my general critical info priority level, but I might change it after some more thought. Critical would be defined as information I need to continue to make good decisions and take successful actions in each category:
    1) Family / Friends
    2) Work
    3) Investing
    4) World developments

    Of each of these, I have the next general group:
    1) Easy / quick to digest updates /action required.
    2) Takes more than few minutes to understand and act upon.
    3) Takes a LONG time, requires understanding a relatively new concept.

    Then entertaining, mildly interesting, etc. I admit my filter is not that structured for these relatively unimportant items.

    But my point is that its a complex, inter-dynamic process, and I am curious how other people do it. My way probably works for only me. But I bet a lot of the smart folks here have some things to say about their own versions of information triage.

  4. Alex Says:
    April 21st, 2011 at 6:32 pm P.S: I brutally filter out all sources of pseud0-information unless I can view it as purely entertainment. In my opinion, my filters here are very effective and give me much more time to focus on more critical facts and ideas. Examples:
    1) TV News…all of it (sorry BBC, not enough content. Everyone else, you are bad entertainment)
    2) Newspapers except the FT, and that is because its a trade paper for me.
    3) Television. I watch about an hour a week at most while I am exercising.
  5. curtisvibes Says:
    April 21st, 2011 at 10:01 pm
    Interesting article in a similar vein.
  6. lunartop Says:
    April 21st, 2011 at 11:59 pm The decision isRead now.
    Read Later.
    Don’t Read.

    What falls into those categories depends on my current context and obligations as well as the continual feedback loop of making that decision.

    It is of course only part of the process of actual comprehension.


In one of the Fishbowl exercises, originally seemingly-unrelated to a textbook exercise, a student was talking about “basic knowledge.” Wow, all that seems to be basic knowledge of the subject.

So, on one hand, I think maybe I just can’t add anything to the topic. But damn, I still need to get the contrat. I’m here. I took all this time to get where I am. It’s about making that effort to take just a few minutes out of one’s day to offer my dialog in there.

C’mon, David, you can do it…hehe

Information Triage.

Alex sez: “I often make time to read “bad” information, just to make sure it is just that.”

haha. That reminds me of touching the sore inside my mouth just to make sure it still stings.  lol

Talking from a tech sense, of having to divide and conquor the influx of media and information coming in, I’m of course thinking of the spam filter. It seems that universally people are talking about how they’d divide the degree of importance, along the lines of what’s important, versus nonsense.

But for me, I automatically start thinking about how do I get the machine to tell what’s what. I mean, fairly ubiquitously these mobile communications devices is how we get all the information. There is also billboards, and enough advertising out there, but we can’t control that–it is what it is.

On the other hand, a “computing” device has to distribute this stuff. So I’m in the school of fixing these things where they break due to the dangerous information. Even a virus is a language, a means of communicating. So that has to be the first level of triage, where the dangerous is weeded out.

The next level is spam and the possibly dangerous.

The third level is friendly, or potentially so.

Zen.paradiso’s Fishbowl
16 April 2011

What is technology? How will it impact your future (and your job)? Will it transform one into a cog in the machine?

Look at examples of technology: Poloroid photographs, an M-16, shortwave radio, velcro, digital video, paper, Roman Concrete, paint and stain, Stonehenge, Nautilus machines, facsimilies, pagers, I-phoneys/I-Pod, RFIds, a crossbow, GoogleChrome and documents, Cloud Computing, Verizon 4g network,,,,pause this list right here.
There is a commercial that goes with the Ver. 4g deal, but first I wanted to make a comment about this jumble of a list of random-seeming technologies. Some of them are related, but others, are seemingly unrelated to others on the list. It is true from the specialists point of view that they’re unrelated, and I can recognize what that is saying. But then I take the broader view that they’re all related by being tools of some sort, where up to a point, these things have been servants to us, the humans. So this takes us closer to the content of this Verizon commercial.
No question about it, this is intense technology. The plot of this commercial is that it’s essentially a race between a trio of downloaders, against a missle. The game is that they need to download something completely before the missile takes out the 4G hotspot. Wowsers!
Really?! What is the subliminal message here? They give, and the military taketh away
How does technology impact us today? It takes away our access to the network…poof, it’s all gone!!

But over an above that, we need to reign it back in. Any and all technologies need be available to the rank-and-file; wherewith to help the rest of us who work hard, work with our hands, daily performing repetitive tasks, plodding through the drudgery, monotony of our lives, one payday at a time.
We the unemployed, the underemployed, the homeless even…how does that go again? To quote Sanjiv’s Fishbowl:
“‘Students, workers, groups of the unemployed and other social and cultural forces are experimenting together in new democratic forms of social organization and are active in horizontal, non-hierarchical networks.(3/29/11)'”
This extends to technology: how its created, thought about, the ideas behind the technology is just as important as what comes out. Look at the average cell phone as the example. How many features are on there that the average person doesn’t use, but there it is. This so called advance of technology is actually, well, kinda like the really smart kid in class that just couldn’t relate to people on an everyday level. There’s just so much other sh*t goin on in its [brain] that, what comes forth is more confusing than helpful, or necessary. An improvement is to get rid of all the waste, and unused functions…but I digress.
I think how this social organizing, restructuring non-hierarchical networks relates to technology is more applicable to software, and that which directly interfaces with the human. Emergent search engines, which can benefit from the new 64-bit architecture of computing. Algorithms depend on the floating-point ability of the modern render farm. Banks of servers, many running Intel (Xeon processor) blade units, which host open source operating systems, such as Apache. This platform extends to Facebook, Twitter, and the list of sms functioning, cloud computing (read: Google Documents). This doesn’t even begin to encorporate any of the World of Warcraft, and other massively multiplayer on-line gaming servers; but probably should, seeing as how many relationships it’s/they’ve wrecked.
Ultimately, the promise of all this non-linear technology is to allow us to organize in different ways. A non-heirarchical system of organization allows for the smooth, and easy transmission of information across a broad range of individuals; all, assumedly able to make their own snap decisions while they work…their “repetitious labour tasks, which [haven’t necessarily] been made relegated to the fringes by the [advance] of abstract knowledge.” Even greater analysis reveals that where ever there is labour to be done…and at some point we wind-up back to the place where we started and we have to grow our own food, and make our own clothes, and work becomes repetitive again…labor to be done, the distinction of “class” comes from those who know the big picture and how it all relates, and those who need to be constantly told what to do.
So, I ask, is there some point where those who are, well, quite honestly, with no better name: ulets, where these special individuals can be trusted to do the same amount of work? Or, to be included within the equality network where all have an equal say, but based on, what, one’s time spent working for the goal(?)
This is something at the heart of one person, one vote. Who’s not a citizen that they can’t vote? At some point, this is where the basis of currency arrives, as a primary means of discriminating against a certain “class” of individuals. Inherent in capital is this notion of classification, better known as stratification. So in the world of abstract knowledge, where just about everyone can read, thanks to such civilizing machine as the computer, or the Kurzweil reader. People the world-over have sms messengers, or cell phones, and an interesting array of electronic communication devices. The world of information, the age of information is upon us.
So, by being able to transmit data across these broad distances, this is creating that sort of non-heirarchically organized system where even the poorest urban dweller can actually get a say in the process itself. Can, theoretically, vote. We as a people vote to abolish the electoral college system, a pretty whacked-out technology in itself…

How will technology impact those of us homeless, jobless, riddled with the burden of the debt of a nation?
Prison has a marvelous curative effect on the soul. Penance is a good thing.
A bail-out to Wall Street. To those too big to fail, like AIG and a whole litany of who’s who in finance and business. Overextended, underregulated seems to be the present state of affairs for those charged with maintaining the financial system, b.k.a. Wall Street.
Why do we have to bail them out? They’re the reason why we’re in the mess that we are now. How come they aren’t bailing us out? They had the money, why didn’t they save it when they had it…save it for a rainy day? You going broke is a rainy day.
The heads of these corporations that created this mess should be put in jail–i think that’s what I’m suggesting. A few nights in jail would only do them some good. The sheer isolation and desolation, but yet with an incredible amount of noise and chaos, will have a beneficial effect. Give them the humility to address their crimes, and the amount of money they swindled from us.
We may talk of the ulets and poor as the marginalized society:those with nothing, or less than that. But what if the capitalist system fails, the dollar collapses, and one’s left to fend for himself through using only his hands and head? Given the choice of survival where those suits, the guilty, have to be contained for the betterment of the group, or we’re all going down…well, the choice is obvious: they’re more valuable as food, than as prisoners.
These are harsh words, but no less so than is the capitalist treaty: ‘s/he who dies with the most toys is the winner.’ If one’s only contribution to life and human affairs is to “stack bills”, or make money for its own self, and not share it with those who made it possible, then there’s someone who should spend a night, or two in jail. Perhaps a longer stay would do it.

Sanjiv’s Fishbowl
email of Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 4:17 PM,
Sanjiv <sanjivdugal@xxx> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Your ‘work,’ or ‘labor’, I should say, is most encouraging.

If I were to say to you that there is a revolution going on in your
fishbowls, you probable won’t believe me. It’s always like that!

It’s happening everywhere,  in case you hadn’t noticed. The revolution, that
is: ‘Students, workers, groups of the unemployed and other social and
cultural forces are experimenting together in new democratic forms of social
organization and are active in horizontal, nonhierarchical networks.’

That’s what we’re doing up here in Providence in the coffee exchange
fishbowl, and on Wednesday evenings at Brower’s. We even have a city garden
called Fertile Underground. I’m part of its genesis. You’re part of it too.
We talk about the fishbowl incessantly. Everybody knows about it. For one
thing, you’re either with it or you’re not. And, you either like it or you

For those who think about these things, ‘self-valorization’ is the building
block for constructing any new forms of relating to each other. I certainly
see you doing that in your fishbowls. Self-valorizing, that is. Check it


—— End of Forwarded Message

Providence Journal’s article about our coop, the Fertile Underground Grocery Store, opening-up on the west end of Providence.


Behold, Mike and Dauna, spearheading the activities necessary to open the store, in the background.

Now that it’s over, I’ll talk about it here–this isn’t necessarily an appeal for funds. We’ve had a project posted on, seeking money to help us build-out the store, to install fixtures, and especially get produce and items we’re planning on stocking the store with.  Our goal here, originally, was $10,000 Federal Reserve notes, but decided that $8800 was better to shoot for, cause we knew we could at least do that well.

Indeed we have. Visit the link below, and check-out our project.  I’ll be updating readers as things happen.

Collapse — Part 1

Posted: 20, April 2011 in Uncategorized

Mike Ruppert has a lot of good information on the current state of the world. Some additional things I suggest looking into to supplement the information which Ruppert provides:

Cold Fusion Energy:


About half way through this part, he talks about Food, and shows keen insight on the problems facing the modern farms.

What does happen when the dollar and the Federal Reserve based system finally goes broke?

Collapse — Part 2

Posted: 20, April 2011 in Uncategorized

Mike Ruppert has a lot of good information on the current state of the world. Some additional things I suggest looking into to supplement the information which Ruppert provides:

Cold Fusion Energy:


Fiat Currency, the Federal Reserve Note, paper money, cash, whateever you want to call it, is all based on the oil as the backer of our current currency. Ruppert has alot of information on the state of our Modern condition, and our oil-based economies.

The Fertile Underground

Posted: 22, March 2011 in Uncategorized

We humans need to eat.  But what’s in (y)our food?

Fertile Underground Logo

Fertile Underground logo

Un-genetically modified,  minimally-processed food is one of those things that humans can’t live without.  The popularity of such as Micky D’s, Burger Krud, and the like is an indication of how people have been brain-washed into thinking that garbage is actually nourishment.

Since coming to this state last December, I’ve been involved with a communal garden on the South Side. The name of the garden is the Fertile Underground. We are all organic, don’t spray chemicals and pesticides, and needless to say, use nothing that’s “Roundup Ready.”

On some level this is the struggle of the corporation (and greed) versus the human being.

The future of food.  “Whoever owns the seeds, owns the food.” I started watching this documentary, as I started writing this post. It seemed the perfect match. They’re talking about exactly the things that we are focusing on, issues to which we’re trying to draw attention

Local vs. imported. We talk about local as the solution to nutritional food. But perhaps this isn’t exactly the case. If one looks at Mexico, they have banned the planting of genetically modified plants. Corn is the specific example. There are hundreds of varieties of maize that have been grown for some 7,000 years in Mexico, which are used for all manner of feeding; from making popcorn, to tortillas, to feeding the cattle. Compare this to the effect of Monsanto’s killer-gene plants. With such a prevalence of pesticides, and transgenic mutations causes by Monsanto’s corrupted seeds, the contamination easily crosses from farm to farm, plant to plant, often against the will of the growers, such as has been happening in North Dakota, and other farming communities.

There was a time when “Made in U.S.A.” meant something, when that phrase stood for quality made, and high standards. Now it seems to be standing for the decimation of traditional means and methods of farming: the basis of what we eat. It seems that nearly all other cultures and societies of Earth are not swayed by the arguments of corporate farming. We of the Fertile Underground are not swayed,  impressed by their hollow reasoning, and misrepresentations (–or should that read false science?)

Essentially we’re staring down the barrel of agri-business. It’s hard to look at the strategy and effects of Monsanto without seeing that we are at war for our health, our very life itself . The forces of commercialism, capitalism and greed are rallying to destroy the human,  in a number of areas. Our food supply is just one of the ways.

Something happened on the way to our future. A green desert.

It’s even harder here in the city, in the “urban setting,” to stay natural, organic, biodynamic, free of poisons. There’s a virtual plethora of damaging chemicals, compounds sourced from air pollution from factories,  planes, trains, and automobiles in the form of the soot, or acid rain; to run-off from the asphalt jungles; to contaminated soil; to the quest for higher yields from these smaller spaces seemingly necessetating the use of pesticides and manufactured fertilizers. Yet, because of these very same conditions, the city garden plots are in many ways healthier than our rural counterparts. The overwhelming majority, if not all, of us at the Fertile Underground, and those within our immediate circle of city farmers are completely organic. We have a growing contingency of people who are learning to how to properly compost,  save seeds, rejuvinate the soil, among the seemingly myriad tasks that we need to do to have our growing spaces.

The human being needs healthy, fresh, clean food. We are a group looking to provide that very thing within the so-called food deserts of the city.

I’ve been trying to decide what I wanted this blog to be. Originally it was going to be about gardening/landscaping/growing stuff in conjunction with the  Specifically things related to my work with the Fertile Underground Communal Garden, and FUG (the grocery).  While it may likely contain some stuff relating to that great communal work, those posts are part of a bigger picture, from where I’m looking.

Things have expanded. The focus of what I personally want to discuss lay in a different realm, at least obstensibly.  My philosophy has always in synch with The Fertile. But part of the question of  “what makes fertile?” is a reliance on Nature, and natural processes. Human beings used to be in touch with Nature and natural processes.  Now we depend, almost exclusively, upon Technology, replete with Its own rules and logics.

What is my point for blogging (I HATE that word) over here? Well, i’m looking to mainly explore the issue of technology, and how it is effecting modern man (so-called Homo Sapien Sapien, the “smarter man”). Technology touches and effects all of us; encapsulates, isolates, alienates, yet connects together every one who is part of this modern world. Is it good and/or beneficial to us? Are we more advanced because of all this so-called “advanced technology,” (also know as “Abstract Knowledge”)? Are we any smarter because of all this technology?

I intend to post relevant articles from other sources that show where I’m going with this project.  My friend D’spacio sent me an email from a group called Fertile Ground, found in washington, . I/We Believe:

1.    That human survival is dependent on healthy, diverse ecosystems.

2.    That industrial civilization is undermining every living system on the planet.

3.    That the rights of life trump the perceived rights of commerce.

4.    That most injustices are systematic and deliberate.

5.    That the scale of planetary degradation is massive and should be met with solutions that match the scale of the problems.

6.    That the modern environmental movement will need to undergo a fundamental transformation for it to be successful.

7.    That technological innovation will not prevent the systematic degradation of our planet.

8.    That this culture will not make a voluntary change to a sustainable lifestyle.

9.    That protective use of force is justified in defending our landbase.

10.    That our current civilization needs to be replaced by thousands of cultures that are fully integrated into their local ecosystems.

I think the above accurately describes my thoughts on the issue of technological advancements. This is why I’ve posted their declaration of core values.  It’s a good way to summarize where I’m going,  starting this blog.